The Interview

“So it’ll take verbatim and give me a transcript, and then I can… So you’re okay with me recording, right? Okay, go ahead.”

“Um, okay. So just gonna do some first warm-up questions. So firstly, obviously, your name.”

“Laurence.”

“Laurence. Okay. And, like, if you were to describe yourself using a sentence, like, describe yourself in a sentence.”

“Describe myself in a sentence. Well, Laurence, I’m Laurence, and if I was to describe myself, I am a semi-retired bus driver, and by semi-retired, I mean I’m not working as hard as I used to. But I’m right now a school bus driver, and it’s hard to squeeze me into one sentence.”

“Fair enough. What is something that you could not live without?”

“My faith.”

“Okay, we’re just gonna do different categories of questions. So this one will be about your childhood, if that’s okay. What’s your favourite moments or memories from your childhood? Well, they don’t have to be your favourite, but they can be, like, your clearest memories, or…”

“Yeah. So I don’t know how well you know me, but when you ask me this question, I right away… Because you think… How old are you, by the way?”

“Fourteen.”

“Yeah, fourteen. So as a fourteen-year-old, you’re asking me basically, why are you here? Your story, like, how did you get here? And right away, it’s like, for me, it’s just because I think deeply. So I have to take a minute.

“Well, it’s really wonderful because I’m the fourth born out of five, so I have a little sister who’s seven years younger than me, and my brothers. And my brother Andrew—Glenn, John, Andrew—for most of my life, tortured me.

“So one year he went away for… He worked as a volunteer for an organization called Covenant Players, and they went all over the U.S. and they did little skits in a church setting. They did little skits to teach young people, or the church, whatever. So he did that for a whole year because he’s an actor.

“And anyways, so when he got back, him and I were sitting very late at night, and with old people like me, we forget things. We don’t remember anymore. But I remember very vividly this moment where he finally saw me.

“And I remember we were sitting beside my mom’s fish tank, and I was watching the fish swim by as my brother finally saw me.”

“Okay. What is your craziest bus story, or funniest bus story? Favourite bus story?”

“I’ve got lots of stories. Okay, I’ll give you one. It was way back in training, so probably going back to 1990. What year were you born?”

“2012.”

“So before you were born, 1990, there used to be a psychiatric hospital called Riverview. Have you ever heard of that?”

“I think I…”

“So it was very old, like going back to the thirties and forties, I think. They used to house people that had schizophrenia and all kinds of psychological, psychiatric disorders. They would put them into asylums, right?

“So we still had one here in Vancouver. It was called Riverview. So one of the bus routes that I was being trained in was to go through that facility, and you actually drive a bus through it. That’s how big it was.

“So our instructor told us while we were driving through there to never pick up anybody in slippers and a housecoat, like if they didn’t have any ID.

“So the funny… It’s a weird funny story. But anyways, we were joking around, like you know how you joke around about your teacher sometimes or your parents when they’re not around or whatever.

“So, right in front of our instructor—because bus drivers are like that—his name was Al, and we were joking around with Al that we were gonna bring a housecoat and slippers and take away his ID and kick him off the bus, and he’d be at Riverview from now on.

“So I don’t know if that’s really hilarious, but that’s one of my funny bus stories. Don’t get me started on bus stories because we’ll be here all day, for sure.”

“Was bus driving your first job?”

“No, my first job, I was a paperboy delivering newspapers, first with my brother and then on my own. And then I worked at a drugstore as a stock boy. So I swept the back and helped with stock in the back and that sort of stuff.

“And then from there, what else did I do? Eventually, I became a swim instructor and lifeguard, and from there I worked with kids as a child psychiatric worker. I worked in a specialized unit in Winnipeg with autistic kids.

“And then when I moved to Vancouver here, I worked as a lifeguard, swim instructor again, and then eventually I applied and became a bus driver.

“So there’s my résumé.”

“What do you think? Which job did you struggle in the most?”

“You know, the…”

“Or we could do a different question and do, like, what was something you really struggled with?”

“Well, if we’re gonna say, I’d like to answer both questions, because with me, becoming a bus driver was very difficult. I remember I had this nervous twitch, like this, because it was so…

“I was going to ask you a question about me. Do you know what an introvert and an extrovert is? So how would you describe yourself?”

“A little bit.”

“So one of the things, the first thing I noticed with you is how, it’s called reticent and introverted, you were. Okay? And I never know how to take that.

“I thought… I always think this, but when I first met you, I thought, Austin hates me. And every time you get on the bus, Austin hates me, Austin hates me.

“No, but I mean, that’s because you’re not, like, you know, giving me a big hug. If you’re not giving me a big hug, and plus I’m the fourth born, so it’s, I don’t want to, again, get hurt. But it’s, pay attention to me, right?

“So believe it or not, what do you think I am? Do you think I’m an introvert or an extrovert?”

“I think more on the extrovert.”

“You’d think that, right? Well, I’m an introvert.

“So I was like you when I first met you. I was so like you, so quiet, so scared of the world. Like, I lived behind my brothers, you know, like I walk around… I’m kind of making a little poem there.

“But becoming a bus driver was very hard for me because of that part, but also driving this huge vehicle and the responsibility and everything like that. So it was a real struggle to overcome that, and I had this nervous twitch that I had to really… I call it mental math, like thinking my way through.

“And now what happens is, the reason most people think I’m an extrovert is because this is my house, my domain, and when you get on my bus, this is my place, and I’m welcoming you to my house.

“So I have a hospitable heart. So what you’re experiencing is the hospitality of me, but it’s still within that introversion.

“So then you said, what was my hardest struggle? See…”

“This could also be one of them.”

“Well, the biggest thing is my… You go back to my parents. I’ve done lots of research on myself.

“My dad was a very introverted, shy person who never talked to me about his heart. But my mother always did. So I was very close to my mom, and my dad was kind of this person that brushed my teeth and cut my nails and fixed my hair and taught me how to spend money and look after them and all those practical things in life. But he never told me about his heart.

“So as I grew up, I found talking to girls very easy, and talking to guys, like, impossible.

“And so, in grade nine, all my friends were girls, and yet none of them… I remember none of them… Like, I’m married. I always wanted to be married and everything like that, to girls, right? But I never thought of dating them, like to be girlfriends and boyfriends with them. I just felt so comfortable with them, and the guys I felt alienated from.

“So I remember that time of my life, not understanding, you know, who I was, because character traits that I have are usually what people think of as female, but it’s actually just my character. I’m a counsellor, teacher personality. It’s also called paternal.

“So that was my initial struggle, understanding who I am. Am I a guy or not? Why can’t I talk to guys? And I had to work through it.

“Because if you see me sitting in a room, I’ll sit and talk to the guys who are talking about football and baseball and cars and all that kind of stuff. But if somebody’s sitting there talking to me about what you and I are talking about, that’s where you’ll see me flourish, if you know what I mean.

“Because that’s my topic, is people. I love people, and that’s part of, you know, paternal and maternal, like a mother. And then when mothering instincts come out in a man, it’s called paternal.

“So does that help? Do you understand?”

“Oh yeah, yeah.”

“Okay.”

“So you said you spend a lot of time in your head when you’re small, right?”

“A lot of what?”

“Time in your head.”

“For sure.”

“So was there, like, a specific moment or a specific day where… So you were how old when this was happening?”

“Well, my whole life, but the time when it came to a head was in grade nine. Well, maybe actually grade seven, because I remember his name was Guy. I think his name was Guy.

“In grade seven, he grabbed me by the throat and lifted me off the ground, and he said, ‘You’re dead. You’re dead.’ They were going to beat me up after four.

“And it was because I had messed up with them so bad, they thought I had told on them. I was a snitch and a rat, everything like that.

“And my mother did what my mother always did. She said, ‘Oh no!’ She rescued me, and she put me into a private school. And then that private school didn’t work out for grade seven and eight, and so she put me into grade nine in another private school across town from where I was.

“So it was right in grade seven, eight, and nine where I was really… Do you understand? Like, that was a confrontation of… I didn’t even know what I did wrong to have this guy physically lift me off the ground. And I still don’t know what I did.

“But it’s interesting. You asked me if I was in my head. Did you gather that about me, or is that…?”

“Yeah, a little bit. Was there, like, a name? Like, did you call the bullies anything? Do they have a name?”

“Do I call them anything? Guy.”

“Just Guy?”

“Just call him Guy. I think his name was Guy.”

“Okay. Was there, like, a specific day or a specific moment where you overcame this struggle?”

“Yes. Yes.”

“Like the struggle of being shy.”

“You know, I can’t actually say there was, because when my son, who’s twenty-six now, my youngest son, and he’s from my second marriage… So when my wife told me that I had to go out trick-or-treating with him—funny, we’re here at Halloween—I think he was maybe four years old.

“And I was already a bus driver for… He was born in 2000, so 2004. I’d already been a bus driver for fourteen years, and she told me that I had to take him out for Halloween trick-or-treating, and I was afraid!

“Me, the extrovert bus driver guy, I was afraid to go up to the door with my son and do ‘Halloween apples’ or whatever.

“And you know what I did? I waited for fourteen-, fifteen-year-olds to come along, and I went in with them. They went in first, like my big brothers, and that’s how I piggybacked on them.

“Do you understand what I mean?”

“Yeah. So it wasn’t like a specific moment when you were small. It was more of, like, a longer time where you started slowly learning.”

“Yeah, and part of what we’re talking about when you ask me, you know, the most important thing in my life or whatever, is my faith.

“When I was ten or twelve years old, maybe ten, I had my first experience in church. Do you know anything about church?”

“A little bit, but not too much.”

“So in the Christian faith, there’s a point in time when you accept Christ as your Saviour. So I did that at camp with—what’s his name?—Glenn Wilkerson was my camp counsellor, and he basically scared me into heaven by saying, ‘If you don’t accept Christ right now, you’re gonna go to hell.’

“So I voted for, yeah, I don’t want to go to hell. So I was scared. Imagine at ten years old hearing that, right?

“And then I went through this time where I was constantly in fear that I was still gonna go to hell, and so I had that whole problem.

“But there was a time when I turned, I think it was sixteen, and I remember standing—and it’s significant, you should realize this—I was standing at the corner of Vimy and Ness Avenues on the way to the bus stop.

“And I remember stopping and saying to God that I accepted His existence, but I didn’t know if my parents represented Him, or the Bible represented Him, or whatever. But could He please teach me in a way that I could understand?

“So that was a very important coming of age for me, and I think all of us have to do that. We all have to say, ‘Okay, I’ve been brought up this far with what my parents have taught me and the school has taught me, and you have to own it for yourself to actually make sense of it.’

“So that was at sixteen, standing at that corner in that conversation, because that transformed me.

“So even now today, everything that I do, this conversation is always going on.

“And so I’m sixty-three, by the way, and I’m not… I’m not another…”

“Oh my God, what was your typical…?”

“Speak of the angel.”

“You and I were talking about when I was young.”

“Yeah.”

“Like, what was your typical routine like? Like the weather and everything?”

“Well, an important thing about me going to and from school is that I would take forever to come home from school because I was always stopping to get down and look at the ants and pretend that I was as big as them.

“I had a very active imagination, so I was always imagining things.

“Then I remember… Yeah, certain subjects I excelled in, and so I always applied myself in school. Like, I wanted to learn. And like I said, the social aspects of it… I don’t know how to describe…

“One thing that happened to me is in grade seven, they wanted me to learn a musical instrument. And you know what? My reason for not doing a musical instrument in band was so… I know you’re not going to know, but I thought, well, it’s too late for me.

“How old are you in grade seven? Twelve? Twelve years old! I believed that I was too old to learn.

“That’s silly, right?”

“That’s a perfectly fine time to…”

“Right! That’s the best time.

“So I’ve suffered from that my whole life, thinking I’m too young… Like, or it’s too late. It’s too late. I can’t…

“So, for me, anyways, I don’t even know how to answer the typical day because it’s going back so far.

“But when I got into that private school in grade nine, I had gone to this private school. It was in the basement of a Baptist church, and it was individual curriculum, so it was like being homeschooled, but in a group.

“And I really excelled at English literature and grammar and that sort of stuff. They had these things called PACEs. They were little thin eight-and-a-half-by-eleven books.

“And I just raced through grade eight and grade nine because you could go as fast as you wanted. And I just went crazy over it.

“And so when I went into grade nine in the next school, I remember my English teacher was Mr. Penner.

“And this is where I’m going to tell you this, and don’t do this. Like, don’t say Laurence did it, and so I’m going to do it. Okay?

“I made fun of Mr. Penner. Like, he didn’t get me, and I didn’t get him, right? And so I wasn’t paying attention to him because he was actually teaching me something that I was way… And I wasn’t thinking, I know all of this. I was just bored.

“So I was talking to the guy beside me, and so he made the mistake—he didn’t know it, but he made the mistake—of saying, ‘Oh, Laurence, would you like to come and teach the class?’

“I said, ‘Sure!’

“And I wasn’t being lippy. I got up and I taught the grammar that he was… I taught it so well, he goes, ‘Okay, can you go sit down?’

“And so in grade nine is where I really had a lot of self-discovery in that regard. I had a certain self-confidence that was coming up.

“And I don’t know where this will fit into the story, but Brock Huebner. You can write that name down if you want. Brock Huebner.

“So he was the bully of my life, okay, in grade nine. Brock. Not Guy in grade seven, but Brock.

“So what happened was he was in this group of friends, and there were two or three girls and these guys. But when I was with these guy friends—Brock, Andy, Alan—so it was all the guys, okay?

“And they were the bad guys, like the ones that skipped out of school.

“And we’d go to—again, don’t say Laurence did it, so I’m gonna do it. It’s a bad example.

“We would skip out, and we’d go to the local corner store, and we’d play pinball. Ah, we played pinball!

“Do you know what that is?”

“No.”

“We skipped out of school. I went to private school in grade nine.”

“Oh, it was at the church?”

“No, it was… No, grade seven and eight was at the church, and then Mennonite Brethren Collegiate Institute, MBCI, was across town.

“That was an actual high school like this, private school like this, big, like everything like Southpointe, only it was called MBCI.

“So we skipped out of class, and we would go play pinball in the local thing, and Brock would go to the corner store.

“And again, like, this is PG-13.

“He would take his dad’s cheques because his dad was an Amway salesman. You know what that is?”

“I think so.”

“Well, he sold, like, yeah, Amway. Amway is like selling door-to-door things, like car polish and household cleaners and all kinds of stuff.

“So his dad would sell this, and he’d get paid by cheque. And Brock would steal those cheques, and he would sign his name on the back.

“And the loser corner-store guy would cash the cheque like it was Brock’s cheque, right? And let him buy cigarettes.

“So there, you’re in grade nine, right? He’d let him buy cigarettes, and I’m part… I’m actually flowing in with these kids.

“A person who, by that time, I’d been four years a Christian, and yet it was a Christian school, and yet here I was with the bad guys, doing bad things, right?

“Like, we did… I can’t tell you. We played pranks on the whole school. They were horrible. They got us in so much…

“I actually got kicked out of that school because one day Mr. Penner—remember I told you?—one day Mr. Penner lent us his key to go to the multipurpose room.

“So we went down to the multipurpose room, and we were supposed to practise something for whatever.

“So Brock stole Mr. Penner’s house key off this ring. You know, one of those lock rings? And he didn’t tell us.

“And then the next day we got called into the office.

“So there we all are, lined up, and they’re saying, like, somebody stole the key, and we’re going to be here every day until somebody confesses, right?

“So the first day goes by, and then the second day Brock comes to us and he says, ‘Okay, I took the key, and this is our story.’

“Okay, so…”

“He’s trying to drag you guys into it.”

“One hundred percent! Yeah.

“And so that’s called collusion, when you all say, ‘This is what happened.’ That’s collusion, right?

“So he wanted us to collude with him.

“So I made the mistake of continuing because that was my introverted, shy side, right? So I went in with him, and I did that.

“I don’t know if this is getting very off topic, but the thing is…”

“No, it’s good because I really need, like, a story.”

“Okay, good!”

“So what ended up happening is we went for his stupid story, which was that we were tossing the keys around and one fell off, right?

“Like, I don’t… There is no… I’m trying to look at the ring. There it is. So it’s this kind of ring, okay? There’s no way the keys…

“So that was the lie that he came up with, and anyways, it finally came out, and so all of us were kicked out of school.

“And it was the end of… I’m sure they were thinking, okay, they knew who did this, they knew who did that. They had us now, red-handed, right?

“So it was a big life lesson for me in that I got in with the wrong crowd, and it just pulled me over.

“But this guy Brock, he didn’t like me because—and I realize now, looking back on it—because I wasn’t pandering to him specifically as being the leader.

“It was like he saw me as competition, even though I didn’t see myself as that.

“And I remember one day he called me Stinky, right? And so everybody is supposed to make fun of me, and I’m supposed to crawl away and die.

“But I had older brothers who teased me and everything, so teasing didn’t faze me, oddly enough, out of everything I’ve told you.

“So I went home, and just… I don’t know if you need to pause a second.

“What if somebody at school was to mock you, you know, with your friends? Just pause for a second and think, you know, what would I do?

“So I went home, and I got a white T-shirt, and I cut… I took and I cut like this, and I cut holes in it, and I circled the holes with black felt pen, and I wrote STINKY across the back.

“I took off the sleeves and I took off the collar, and I wore that to school the next day.

“Okay, so everybody there thought that was so fantastic that they turned to Brock and said, ‘Give us a name.’

“And so, what do you think his reaction was to that?”

“Surprised?”

“Right! Like he looked over at me like, I hate you. Do you know what I mean?

“But that didn’t end there. He eventually kept pushing my buttons and pushing my buttons till I finally went up to him.

“And grade nine is when you guys come from being little boys to growing up into full… And I was strong at that point.

“So I remember Brock was still doing it to me, and I went over to him, and he had his cigarettes in his pocket.

“And I… I had a fight in grade two where me and a guy were punching each other out, like, a very short fight, but anyways…

“So Brock, I came up to him, and I remember I grabbed his cigarettes through his shirt, and I crumpled them all up.

“Like, this is the most precious thing in his life, right? A symbol of, I’m a tough guy.

“And I crushed them up, and I said, ‘I am really tired of you, and I want you to stop what you’re doing.’

“That very simple and very formative moment.

“So there’s a life story.”

“Is that your class? And go in, please…”

“Stood up to Brock. So, if that’s okay, what were your emotions before you went up to Brock?”

“I would have to say that what you’ll see with me is that I will reserve judgment. Have you ever heard that before?

“So we’ll go back to you. When I first met you, I thought you hated me.

“Did you hate me?”

“No.”

“And because when you got on the bus, you didn’t notice me. You were very, you know, like that, which can mean so many different things.

“So I reserve judgment.

“And what I did is… Have I ever been mean to you?”

“No.”

“So I’ve never treated you like somebody who hates me. I never paid you back, or… Do you understand?

“Like, well, you hate me. Look, I hate you too. You know what I mean?

“And I’ve watched you.

“I remember one time particularly—I wanted to make sure I shared this with you—I remember, as a little brother, I noticed one day when you and Audrey were coming in, and you went in front of her and went like that.

“And I went, Loser! Do you know what I mean?

“But then I was able to deal with you because you’re a big brother, and I looked at Audrey and I thought, well, actually, this is making Audrey strong, and she doesn’t look dead.

“You know, like us little brothers, we little siblings, we suck it up. Do you know what I mean?”

“Me and Audrey were pretty used to, like, nudging each other.”

“Yeah, it’s called banter, right? Exactly. It’s good-hearted banter, right?”

“Yeah.”

“Exactly. And my brothers and I are like that still.

“So what happened is, my emotion is that I was collecting information about it.

“And I was noticing things like Andy Schmidt was buddies with Brock when Brock was around, like with all of us, and he was close, close, buddy, buddy, buddy.

“But when Brock went away for a while, like I think he went on holidays or something, Andy was suddenly my buddy.

“I remember going over to Andy’s house, having pizza with him, doing all kinds of stuff, and I had this friend.

“But when Brock came back, Andy was like, ‘Oh yeah, I never talked to him.’

“You know what I mean?

“So there was no emotion with me. It was just me wondering, like, what’s going on? Like, how? Do you know what I mean?”

“Confused?”

“Yeah, yeah. And confusion in the sense of just not knowing, because I didn’t know that this was actually a good way to be, of getting all the information in and don’t react.

“Be proactive, not reactive.

“So that’s how… Am I explaining anything?”

“After you stood up to Brock, did that teach you any important lessons that you carry on until now?”

“Yeah, it’s actually taught me…

“Like, you know when we started this year, we had the four German—they’re called gap students.

“Have you met Marie?”

“Oh yeah.”

“Yeah, she’s been on our bus, right?

“She said, ‘What is the one piece of life advice you give every young person?’

“So I’ll give it to you, okay? It’s very short.

“By the way, do you know what the mission and value statement is of the school? Do you know it has one?”

“I remember hearing about it, but…”

“Okay, it’s on the Southpointe website, and it’s under About, and it’s the mission and values statement.

“So I’m very much about mission and values. I work from values.

“So I’ve looked up what the mission and values of the school are because of the fact that I believe very deeply what I believe.

“But I’m not here to teach you my beliefs. I’m here to teach you, as a bus driver, and support you in the mission and values of the school because I’m working for the school, not for Laurence, right?

“So in the mission and values, everything that we’re talking about, I could go through the mission and values with you and show you.

“Okay, so my mission and value is very simple.

“I want to be a safe place to be.

“That’s my mission and value statement. Pretty short for a long-winded guy that can talk forever.

“I just want to be a safe place.

“So she said, ‘What was your advice?’

“And my advice is, don’t stain yourself.

“When you see somebody that needs to be taught a lesson, take a step back and let life happen to them.

“Okay, and I mean, if they’re about to step in front of a car, say, ‘Hey, Bob!’ You know, like, save them.

“But if they’re…

“I don’t know if you’re an avenger of wrongs.

“My twenty-six-year-old, when he was younger—he’s autistic—he actually got in trouble because he would right wrongs. He would go after bullies and smack them.

“And he’s now, like, huge.

“So I had to teach him, use your words.

“Okay, so…”

“Sort of being the hero is important, but don’t try to play the hero all the time because it can do bad things. It can be bad.”

“Yeah, because you…”

“Consequences.”

“Yeah, yeah. Because if you take the law into your own hands, for instance, when the police show up, they’ll say, like, ‘Okay, you’re guilty and you’re guilty.’

“And so what you do is you wait for them to experience the consequences of their actions.

“And you know what? For me, people like that… Like, if I was to meet Brock now, I would say, ‘Hey,’ you know?

“I’d listen to hear if he looks back and says, ‘Oh, I remember that, Laurence. I’m so sorry.’

“I’m sure he’s grown, because, I mean, hope to God! He’s fourteen then, and we’re both sixty-three now.

“So it’s don’t stain yourself, not just in the consequences here, but also with that person.

“Like, don’t alienate yourself from that person.

“So a good example is me thinking you hated me.

“My thing was I would reserve judgment, and I would keep it all in sight.

“So if all the evidence came in that you did hate me, I’d think, like, how can I remedy this so that you and I could connect, and you would consider me to be a safe place to be, right?

“But if I stain myself by persecuting you and hurting you and working on that one thin little definition of why, I’m staining myself with you.

“Do you understand what I mean?”

“And this was all before you guys got kicked out of school?”

“Ah, yeah. Okay. I don’t know what the specific time frame was because I don’t even know what time of the school…”

“On the day you… So you said you were standing up to Brock. Did that teach you, like, to… I don’t know how to say it, but, like, if somebody is making you unhappy or anything, you should, like, ignore them or do something about it, not just stand there and take it?”

“I found out when I became a bus driver in 1990. So what’s ninety minus sixty-two?”

“Ninety minus sixty-two. That’s twenty-eight.”

“Yeah, twenty-eight. So I was twenty-eight years old.

“I found out driving a bus that I had this unknown philosophy of three strikes and you’re out.

“Piss me off, piss me off, piss me off. I react, and it doesn’t work.

“Okay, especially as a bus driver, because then I get, ‘Yeah, this bus driver…’ and they would just report the crap out of me.

“Because they didn’t see the three times, right?

“And so some member of the public sees me being a jerk to a passenger. They didn’t even see the first three times. They just see me being a jerk, and I’m staining myself.

“Okay, so I had to find out three strikes and you’re out, and that’s what happened with Brock way back then.

“It’s three strikes and you’re out.

“It’s actually unlimited strikes. Like, they get to do whatever they want, because the ultimate life lesson that I’ve learned is that I am who I am, unaffected by who you are.

“You don’t dictate my behaviour.

“There’s this… I don’t know who wrote it, but there’s this person that said that you are the slave of whomever has caused you to lose your temper, to lose your self-control.

“So don’t put yourself in the control of another person. Like, stay outside of it.

“So ultimately, that was a case of a failure.

“Even though I talked about the Stinky thing as a… and the crushing the cigarettes as a… it’s actually, for me, that’s a failure.

“Okay? I look back at that as a failure because what I needed to do is I needed to stay true to who I am, even though I’m confronted by people who are losers.

“Do you understand what I mean?”

“It’s just basically, don’t, because somebody else is being a jerk or anything, don’t let that change who you are.”

“Yeah, that’s right.

“And you know, everything’s a learning moment, and I can learn from that.

“But yeah, you’re very good at summarizing.

“I need you when I go to write my book.”

“And sort of, I might write the story about, like, the day where you stood up to Brock. That’s, like, very important for…”

“It’s a good story.”

“It’s a good story. What was the weather, or, like… What was the sort of weather? Like, just describe the day. The weather, the day.”

“We were outside, and it was a fall day. So, like October, yeah, cold, and we were out doing what we do, like…”

“And where were you living, like, during the time that you…?”

“I was in Winnipeg. Winnipeg. And I lived in St. James, and I commuted back and forth to East Kildonan, which was a forty-minute bus ride for me on the transit bus.”

“Was it in, like, sort of a field, or was it in a hallway?”

“It’s probably in a sports field or in a local park.”

“And what did Brock do before you said, ‘I’ve had enough’? I don’t know…”

“I don’t even know.”

“He didn’t…?”

“I don’t know what he did to deserve that, and I don’t know what happened after that. I just remember that specific…”

“He just kept picking on you?”

“It was just always… Yeah, it was always something.”

“Always picking on you, calling you names. What was, like… So it was, like you said, cold, rainy. What were some, like… What are some smells? Or, I don’t know how to say this, like sounds that you remember from your childhood? Maybe, like, waking up, or any time of day.”

“I don’t know. Are you talking about every day or that day?”

“Just that day. Maybe it can be, like, the smell of pancakes or the smell of wet grass.”

“Well, the smell of snow, that it’s about to snow. You know what that smell is like? The feeling in the air?”

“Yeah. Frosty, and you can see your breath every time you exhale.”

“Yeah, and there’s a particular scent in the air of impending snow.”

“And this was around, like, midday that this happened, when you talked to Brock?”

“Probably.”

“Midday, maybe like twelve p.m., you’d say around that, and it was, like, cloudy. Yeah.

“And maybe just one last question. This probably won’t be you, but it was just, what is your favourite hobby? What was the first hobby you fell in love with?”

“My hobby?”

“Yeah. Sports, maybe, or reading, drawing, anything.”

“Well, can I tell you my hobby right now is writing?”

“Writing.”

“Yeah. So whenever… Whenever this young man from my school…”

“I just… I honestly told Mr. Dupont that I…”

“I went to a coffee shop and I wrote all of this.

“So I write. I have a blog. You know what a blog is?

“So I have a blog, and I have 1,085 things that I’ve written.

“So it’s… It’s very short. I don’t… How much time have you got? Two minutes?”

“Maybe, like, two minutes max, tops. But I also want to know, what was it… How did, like, the moment where you stood up to him, how’s that changed your perspective on people? Like, how’d that make you… Yeah, how’d that…?”

“Do you know what? It’s too… That was… It was changing.

“So when I talked to you about reserve judgment, I was still learning about myself.”

“Okay. And would you say writing helps you relax, unwind from, like, a day of work, or it helps you, like, write your thoughts down?”

“I’m an auditory learner, and part of being an auditory learner also comes out in writing.

“So the way that I process things is by talking out loud or writing.

“So, like, this is an example. I was reading a particular author, and I felt like I was a complete failure. This is 2020, that my whole life had been one big waste of time.

“So I wrote:

“I’m overwhelmed by my failure to live up to whom I was supposed to be by now. I’m sealed up in my coffin, waiting for the lowering and the scoops of dirt.

“I can’t hear any tears nor any handfuls of dirt being lightly sprinkled by loved ones left behind. Just a cold, dark waiting here at the end of my days.

“I lift up my eyes to heaven and tell God how He’s let me down. I’m being let down into a six-foot pit dug by anonymous gravediggers.

“Just then, God, busy with some intricate matter, has one eye adorned with one of those high-powered magnifying lenses you see jewellers use.

“Just above that, He’s got a visor. Above these, a low-hanging bright light illuminates His workspace.

“He sighs as my words arrive at His ear. It’s a patient, loving sigh.

“‘Who is it that has disappointed expectations of you?’ He asks, turning towards me after having lifted His visor and letting the lens pop out of His eye.

“‘I myself am very pleased with you and the life you’re living. Why don’t you come out from under those covers and make us both a coffee?’

“So that’s how I process, and why I write is that I don’t even know what I’m feeling until I write it down and I express it.

“Because, true, at the beginning of what I wrote, I thought that my whole life was a failure.

“But at the end, I realized that I was doing what I did with Brock way back then. It was allowing their attitudes to shape what I thought of myself, and I needed to instead think of that other conversation I told you about.”

“I’m afraid that’s all we have time for.”

“Well, you did, kid.”

“Thank you.”

“So, are you going to be a journalist when you grow up?”

“Uh, maybe.”

“You were awesome.”

“I like a lot of science and stuff, so…”

“But you know what? You’re a very good listener and also summarizer. So whatever you do, you’re going to do good.”

“Thank you.”

“Thanks so much for talking to me. This has been a very… I’m going to be writing lots from the things that have come from our conversation. So thanks so much.

“Sorry, do you want me to write you a note for Mr. Dupont?”

“Uh, no, no, no. He’ll…”

“Believe you?”

“Yeah, because he also got interviewed, so I’m pretty sure.”

“So is it L and L?”

“Uh, yeah, L and L, English class. It’s something we have to write.”

“My favourite class ever!

“So anyways, are you gonna be printing out your essay or whatever?”

“At some point.”

“Okay. Well…”

“That’s…”

“Okay. With your finished assignment, if I can, can you print me out a copy?”

“Yeah, I’ll see if she lets us, because sometimes she has to keep it for marking and she won’t give it back. But it’ll be on… and it’ll also be on paper. So if…”

“You print me a copy, I’d love to. But it’s up to…”

The recording continues, but several voices overlap and portions of the conversation become difficult to distinguish.

“Thanks, sir. You sound like a guy I know, but… Oh my gosh! Oh, are you really that? Yeah, yeah. So I got asked by one of my daughter is Granite, so she…”

“…also got like head people, the great part, the great…”

“…part. So I guess that’s what I was supposed to say, and then you said it’s going to be about…”

“Interview, right? The interview here.”

“For how did you get here? Like, it’s your lifestyle. As soon as it said that, I realized it’s astronomical. I’m very… I’m a very thoughtful, artful kind of person.

“So I’ve had to do so much writing and things like that. Not huge enough, but I’m writing… just to calm down enough to make friends with the art.

“He was attracted to my story about forty degrees…”

“…now, and so…”

“He asked me, but he was gifted with the ability to hear my endless passion to summarize.”

“…like, do you…”

“Know about the old souls? You ever heard about old souls?”

“Yeah.”

“Like the buried trash for them, you know. Yeah.”

“And so he was hosting, and just so interesting.

“Yeah, and I’ve watched him and his sister for four years now. Father’s…”

“…just ten.”