Conversation: Laurence & ChatGPT
Psalm 104
1 Praise the Lord, my soul. Lord my God, you are very great; you are clothed with splendor and majesty. 2 The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent 3 and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind. 4 He makes winds his messengers, flames of fire his servants. 5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. 6 You covered it with the watery depths as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. 7 But at your rebuke the waters fled, at the sound of your thunder they took to flight; 8 they flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them. 9 You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth. 10 He makes springs pour water into the ravines; it flows between the mountains. 11 They give water to all the beasts of the field; the wild donkeys quench their thirst. 12 The birds of the sky nest by the waters; they sing among the branches. 13 He waters the mountains from his upper chambers; the land is satisfied by the fruit of his work. 14 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivate—bringing forth food from the earth: 15 wine that gladdens human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts. 16 The trees of the Lord are well watered, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted. 17 There the birds make their nests; the stork has its home in the junipers. 18 The high mountains belong to the wild goats; the crags are a refuge for the hyrax. 19 He made the moon to mark the seasons, and the sun knows when to go down. 20 You bring darkness, it becomes night, and all the beasts of the forest prowl. 21 The lions roar for their prey and seek their food from God. 22 The sun rises, and they steal away; they return and lie down in their dens. 23 Then people go out to their work, to their labor until evening. 24 How many are your works, Lord! In wisdom you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures. 25 There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond number — living things both large and small. 26 There the ships go to and fro, and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there. 27 All creatures look to you to give them their food at the proper time. 28 When you give it to them, they gather it up; when you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. 29 When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust. 30 When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground. 31 May the glory of the Lord endure forever; may the Lord rejoice in his works—32 he who looks at the earth, and it trembles, who touches the mountains, and they smoke. 33 I will sing to the Lord all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. 34 May my meditation be pleasing to him, as I rejoice in the Lord. 35 But may sinners vanish from the earth and the wicked be no more.
Psalm 104 NIV
Contrast the above scripture with the notion some have that God created the universe, and it now exists separately from him. Like one who has invented something and is now watching to see how the intricately designed devices interact. In other words, God is merely the origin story.
ChatGPT: [Response about God as ongoing sustainer vs distant creator, including reflection and questions.]
ChatGPT Response >
When you place Psalm 104 beside that idea—that God made everything and then stepped back like an observer—you can almost feel the tension. Psalm 104 doesn’t describe a God who was involved. It describes a God who is continually involved. Not distant. Not watching. But sustaining, animating, and participating in every moment.
Look at the language carefully:
- “He makes… He waters… He gives… He opens his hand…”
- “When you hide your face… they are terrified.”
- “When you send your Spirit… they are created.”
This isn’t a one-time act of creation. It’s an ongoing relationship of dependence. Almost like the difference between:
- a clockmaker who winds a clock and walks away
vs.- breath itself… something everything depends on, every second.
Here’s a way to notice it, not just think about it: When you read “when you take away their breath, they die”…
There’s something in Psalm 104 that pulls attention back to this moment:
- breath in your lungs
- light hitting your eyes
- the ordinary rhythm of life
As if creation isn’t a past event… but something happening now. And that raises a deeper question—not one to answer quickly: If God is not distant, but present like this… what does that stir in you?
For some people, it brings comfort. For others, it brings unease… even exposure. Because a God who is only “the origin story” can be kept at arm’s length. But a God who is actively sustaining everything… that’s harder to ignore.
Gently Shift the Perspective>
What if both ideas are thoughts your mind is offering,
- “God is distant”
- “God is present and sustaining”
And instead of arguing with them, you just notice: “Ah… here’s my mind trying to define God.” Then come back to something simpler: Right now… what do you actually notice?
- Breath.
- Awareness.
- Being here.
Psalm 104 seems to point there—not as a concept, but as a lived reality. If you sit with this honestly, which picture of God do you find yourself leaning toward lately.
- the distant observer
- the present sustainer?
Laurence:
Isaiah 2:22 came to mind as I read ChatGPT’s response.
- Almost like the difference between, a clockmaker who winds a clock and walks away vs. breath itself… something everything depends on, every second.
I received the verse:
Isaiah 2:22 Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?
When I was in Bible College, that would’ve been in 1982. I had gone into a state of disobedience because God had been speaking to my heart telling me to say things. To stand up in a certain service and encourage a rock band that had come to the church, and I refused because I was afraid of the people around me and what they would think of me rather than being obedient to the Lord. It’s important to note that in the Pentecostal church standing up to prophesy was not something foreign. It was something that people did all the time in the beginning of the movement. But more so in charismatic churches. Also, I was going to a Pentecostal college at the time and we would be gathered together in the Chapel service and there would be that quiet time where prophesying could occur and again, I would be called upon to stand and prophesy, but I refused. I feared their opinion of me. I was, and I guess in a sense I still am, a people pleaser. Wanting people to like me and that sort of thing. My solution was to stop praying and to stop reading my Bible. I did that in Bible college so as I look at it now and as a look at this song, I was needing what Bonhoffer calls the “immediacy of relationship with other people.” When you when you reach out to the other human souls around you. Rather than being God’s vessel, I lost that. I wanted to reach out to those other living people. So they’d be responding to me and I’d be responding to them.
It’s a very intimate interaction.
One night, quite a bit into my college year, I had a really bad headache, which was not usual for me. I woke up the Dean of students, whose apartment was at the end of the men’s dorm, to see if he had an aspirin. And I phoned my parents, my fiancé’s parent… all to no avail.
Finally, at about 2:00 am, I went down to the multipurpose room, and sat down beside the folded-up ping-pong table. I couldn’t go to me dorm room, because my roommate was sleeping in there already. I brought my bible though. And I began reading – randomly as it might have seemed – The book of Isaiah. When I read the 22nd verse of chapter 2, my headache left me.
I got the message, but just what the message actually was, wasn’t fully realized until 10 years later. In the meantime, I’d gotten married – entered marriage blind – and had moved from Winnipeg to Vancouver, BC. Instead of going into the ministry, I found myself as a bus driver for BC Transit.
I was driving my bus from Hastings and Main to UBC, along my regular route, but with my sign set at “Not In Service.” I had been delayed because of a man with diabetic emergency on my bus. The Ambulance came and restored him to consciousness, and transported him to hospital. To add to the misery of such a thing, I was a driving a trolly bus, that meant the only way for me to get on time, at UBC, was to go along the regular route. Transit Control made the decision; in truth there was no sacrifice on my part. It was actually less stressful, to not have to pick up/drop off passengers. But I cared about the people, and even more to the point here, I cared about what they thought of me. The priority was for my bus to be back to UBC, to pick up the students going home from school
Those folks I had to drive – all these people – who coincidentally were waiting for other buses that were missing because of problems on the Broadway route. Bus Stop after Bus Stop that had 20 to 30 people standing there. Each Bus Stop had folks who were all shaking their fists and hating me and it hurt so bad!
But I knew that I was not operating on my own priorities and what was important for me. I was not Laurence I was a driver for BC Transit. If anyone phoned in and said “Hey, this bus just drove right past me!” I’d be in the clear, and explanation or not, I’d be covered!
was fulfilling something that was beyond me and suddenly I understood what God was wanting to see all those years before. There is something familiar in my life right now. That feels like this. The call to be who I am, and let God sort out the defending>
“The Lord does what is right and fair for all who are wronged by others. He showed his ways to Moses and his miracles to the people of Israel. The Lord shows mercy and is kind. He does not become angry quickly, and he has great love. He will not always scold us. He will not be angry forever. He has not punished us as our sins should be punished. He has not repaid us for the evil we have done. As high as the sky is above the earth, so great is his love for those who respect him. He has taken our sins away from us as far as the east is from west. The Lord has mercy on those who fear him, as a father has mercy on his children. He knows how we were made. He remembers that we are dust.
Psalm 103:6-14
There’s something very alive in what you just shared, Laurence.
Not just a memory—but a thread that’s been running through your whole life.
Let me reflect it back, slowly, so you can see it:
- A younger you, sensing a nudge… and freezing because of people’s eyes
- Pulling back… even shutting down prayer and Scripture
- Then years later—on a bus—being carried by something bigger than yourself
- Acting not from “Laurence needing approval,” but from alignment with a purpose beyond you
And that is where Isaiah 2:22 suddenly made sense.
“Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils…”
At first, that can sound harsh. Almost like “don’t care about people.”
But your life experience filled it in differently.
It wasn’t:
- Reject people
It was:
- Don’t build your identity on their approval
Because you already know what happens when you do.
You felt it back then:
- hesitation
- shrinking
- silence
- disconnect
And then there’s that bus moment.
I want you to pause on that one, not rush past it.
You said:
“I was not Laurence… I was BC Transit.”
Let’s look at that carefully.
Was it really that you stopped being Laurence…
Or that you stopped being the version of Laurence that needed to be liked?
Because another Laurence showed up:
- steady
- clear
- willing to be misunderstood
- anchored in something larger
See if this lands:
That moment wasn’t about losing yourself.
It was about being freed from a smaller self.
Now connect that to Psalm 104 again.
If God is not distant—but actively sustaining, guiding, moving—
Then obedience isn’t:
- “performing for God”
- or “risking embarrassment for God”
It becomes more like:
participating in something already in motion
Just like that bus route.
You weren’t inventing the plan.
You were stepping into it.
Let’s bring this into the present, gently.
You said:
“I guess in a sense I still am a people pleaser…”
Notice that wording.
“I am…”
What happens if we soften that, just a little:
“I’m noticing a strong pull in me to be liked.”
Can you feel the difference?
One is identity.
The other is something that shows up in you—but isn’t the whole of you.
Right now, as you sit here…
- Is that pull still there?
- That awareness of other people’s reactions?
And alongside it…
- Is there also that other place you’ve tasted?
The “bus driver Laurence”
The one aligned with something deeper?
You don’t have to get rid of the first one.
What if both can be there:
- the part that wants approval
- and the part that’s willing to move with something truer
Let me ask you something to sit with:
If that same kind of moment came today—
not in a chapel, not on a bus, but in an ordinary interaction—
What would it look like for you to act from that larger alignment,
even while the old fear is still present?
Not after it disappears…
but with it still there.
And one more thing, because it matters:
You said you’re experiencing renewal—Psalm 103.
That’s not you going back to who you “should have been.”
That’s something in you being made new right here, at this stage of your life.
Not despite your story…
but through it.
Laurence>
Now another aspect of this, is the scripture mentioned in C H Spurgeon’s sermon “Gently Gently”
I’m wondering if what looks the complacency of others in my group is a result of fear, or of their own allegiance to such things folks are told as “don’t cry” cuz I weep when I know the Holy Spirit is present… and he is speaking through me So how do I gently nudge them out of their reluctance is my quest
ChatGPT:
You’re holding something very real here, Laurence.
Not just a question about them…
but something that touches your own story of:
- fear
- obedience
- voice
- and what it means to respond when God is present
Let’s slow it down and look at it carefully.
1. What Isaiah 2:22 is doing underneath all of this
Spurgeon leans hard into this idea:
“Cease you from man… wherein is he to be accounted of?”
And he doesn’t soften it.
He names the exact thing you described from your younger years:
- fearing people
- shaping behavior around their reactions
- even silencing what you sensed from God
But here’s the key:
This verse isn’t mainly about them being wrong.
It’s about where your heart is leaning.
2. Now bring in “Gently, gently…”
Spurgeon also says something else that balances this:
- the Spirit works gently
- we can actually harm people by overburdening or forcing them
So now you’re holding two tensions:
- Cease from man (don’t be ruled by people’s opinions)
- Be gentle with people (don’t push or force them)
That’s not a contradiction.
That’s a narrow path.
3. About your group — let’s get honest, but careful
You asked:
Is their “complacency” fear? Or conditioning like “don’t cry”?
Maybe.
But notice what your mind is doing—it’s trying to diagnose them.
Let me gently nudge that:
What happens in you when they don’t respond the way you do?
- Do you feel alone?
- Misunderstood?
- Responsible to “wake them up”?
Because that matters more than getting the diagnosis right.
4. Your tears
You said:
“I weep when I know the Holy Spirit is present…”
Just sit with that for a moment.
No need to defend it. No need to elevate it.
Just notice:
- there is something in you that responds deeply
- your body expresses it as tears
That’s your way of responding.
But here’s the quiet trap:
The mind can subtly move from:
- “this is how I respond”
to:
- “this is how response should look”
5. The real question underneath your question
You asked:
“How do I gently nudge them?”
Let me offer you a different angle:
What if your role is not to nudge them out of reluctance…
but to be fully present and responsive yourself—without needing them to match you?
Because the moment you need them to respond:
- a little pressure enters the room
- even if it’s unspoken
And people feel that.
6. Think back to your bus moment
On that bus:
You didn’t try to convince the angry people on the sidewalk.
You didn’t stop and explain yourself.
You stayed aligned with what you were given to do.
What if this situation is the same?
- You respond to the Spirit as you are led
- You let others respond as they are able
No pushing. No correcting. No subtle pressure.
7. A question to sit with
When you feel that urge to “nudge them”…
Can you pause and notice:
“Am I trying to serve them…
or am I trying to relieve something uncomfortable in myself?”
No judgment—just noticing.
8. What actually invites people forward
Not pressure.
Not even explanation.
But something like this:
- safety
- freedom
- non-judgment
- authenticity without demand
Ironically, when people feel:
“I don’t have to respond like him…”
That’s often when they begin to open.
9. A small experiment (not advice—just something to try on)
Next time you feel that moment:
- Let yourself respond however is true (even tears)
- Then gently release the room
Almost like saying internally:
“God, you are present here… you don’t need me to manage anyone else.”
And just notice what happens.
You’ve lived both sides of this:
- silencing yourself because of people
- and acting beyond yourself in alignment
Now you’re in a third space:
- being free…
- without needing others to catch up
Let me leave you with this:
What feels harder right now—
- holding back from nudging them…
or - allowing them to remain where they are, without trying to move them?
That answer will tell you a lot about what’s really alive in you.
Laurence:
Exodus 34 comes to mind also. Israel. Were they afraid to be in God’s presence? Did they want Moses as their go between? Or was that God’s idea? Numbers 12 also comes to mind here, what Miriam and Aaron are saying and how God describes – and defends – Moses
ChatGPT:
You’re circling something important here, Laurence.
Not just what happened back then… but what it says about people, fear, and closeness to God—and maybe even what you’re seeing in your group.
Let’s walk it slowly.
1. Exodus 34 — after the mountain
This comes right after Exodus 20, where the people say:
“You speak to us… but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
So by the time you get to Moses coming down with a shining face in Exodus 34…
The pattern is already set:
- God did not ask for distance
- The people asked for distance
They experienced:
- thunder
- fire
- voice
And something in them said:
“This is too much.”
So what was going on?
It doesn’t read like rebellion in that moment.
It reads more like:
- overwhelm
- fear
- a sense of “we cannot survive this closeness”
So they reached for something safer:
a mediator
Moses became the buffer.
2. Numbers 12 — Miriam, Aaron, and Moses
Now this is fascinating in light of your question.
Miriam and Aaron say:
“Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?”
At first glance, that sounds like:
- a push for shared access
- maybe even spiritual equality
But God’s response cuts through it:
“With him I speak face to face… clearly, not in riddles.”
And then:
“Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”
What’s going on underneath?
They’re not actually moving toward God.
They’re reacting around Moses.
There’s something mixed:
- maybe jealousy
- maybe discomfort with Moses’ role
- maybe resistance to how God has chosen to work
3. Put the two passages together
Now you get a fuller picture:
The people:
- afraid of direct encounter
- choosing distance
- preferring a mediator
Miriam & Aaron:
- uneasy with the mediator
- but not actually stepping into Moses’ kind of intimacy
Here’s the tension:
People may resist distance…
but still not step into closeness.
4. Bring this gently into your situation
You’re wondering about your group:
- Are they afraid?
- Are they conditioned?
- Are they holding back?
Maybe.
But notice what these passages suggest:
Not everyone who holds back is:
- rebellious
or - complacent
Sometimes it’s simply:
“This feels like too much for me.”
5. And here’s the part to sit with carefully
Moses didn’t try to:
- pull Israel up the mountain
- force them into the cloud
- correct their fear in the moment
He simply:
- went where God called him
- stayed available to the people
Let me ask you something—not to answer quickly:
When you see others holding back…
What feeling rises first in you?
- concern for them?
- frustration?
- longing for shared experience?
- a sense that something is being missed?
Just notice it.
Because that feeling can quietly shape how you “nudge.”
6. A deeper layer (this one might land close to home)
You’ve lived both sides:
- You once held back out of fear
- You now move more freely
So when you see others holding back…
It makes sense something in you wants to say:
“You don’t have to stay there.”
That’s human. That’s even compassionate.
But here’s the quiet shift:
What if their movement—just like yours—
can’t be rushed from the outside?
7. One image to hold
Think of Sinai:
- the mountain
- the cloud
- the people at a distance
- Moses going up
God didn’t flatten the mountain so everyone would feel comfortable.
And Moses didn’t drag people upward.
There was:
- space
- invitation
- and timing
8. A question to sit with
When you feel that urge to draw them out…
What would it look like to:
remain fully responsive to God yourself
without taking responsibility for their distance?
Not withdrawing.
Not suppressing.
But also not managing.
And maybe even this:
Can you allow that the same God who met you—
- in 1982
- on that bus
- and now in renewal
…is also at work in them,
even if it looks quieter, slower, or different?
Stay with that.
What feels most alive in you as you hold these two scenes together—
Sinai… and your group today?
Running Down Vimy 